As there appears to be some uncertainty about the way votes individually recorded electronically will be used, and votes are automatically recorded when the system is turned on, Council is asked to determine:
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1. |
The principles by which meetings will have individual votes recorded electronically e.g. all public meetings by request before the meeting all meetings unless there is agreement to the contrary each “committee” to decide on its own procedure
Cabinet currently records numbers voting but not names, in the interests of collective responsibility
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2. |
On what occasions votes should not be recorded e.g. for exempt (confidential) items where Members might be subject to illegal acts as a result on appointments recording in the minutes of votes on appointments is already precluded by the constitution
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3. |
Who should have access to the information e.g. Members only any member of the public on request (on payment?) made available through the Web site
The Freedom of Information Act will require that if the record exists it must be made available on request (other than where exempted for confidentiality)
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4. |
How long the information should be kept, i.e. is it regarded as temporary only or part of the public record?
Minutes, agenda and reports must be kept accessible for 6 years after the meeting; background papers for 4 years |
When the Council agreed on 13th January 2004 that the system should be purchased, it had the views of the Constitution Review Working Party, which expected that constituents would be able to see how their local member voted and that the names would be available on request. It was not, however, the intention that names should be recorded in the minutes unless a request for a recorded vote was made and agreed.
Council is invited to confirm that names are recorded in the minutes only when a specific request has been made; and to clarify the issues set out above.
Decision:
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RESOLVED |
that a recorded vote should only occur if six members or one quarter of those present at the meeting, whichever is the fewer, demand it, as per the Constitution. |
For the amendment
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RE Barrett BR Burling Ms PS Corney Dr DR Bard Ms SJO Doggett R Hall Mrs SA Hatton |
Ms CA Hunt HC Hurrell RMA Manning DC McCraith Mrs CAED Murfitt CR Nightingale EJ Pateman |
Mrs DP Roberts NJ Scarr J Shepperson Mrs DSK Spink RT Summerfield Mrs BE Waters NIC Wright |
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21 |
Against the amendment
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JD Batchelor JP Chatfield Mrs A Elsby Dr SA Harangozo Dr JA Heap |
Mrs EM Heazell SGM Kindersley Dr JPR Orme JA Quinlan Mrs GJ Smith |
Mrs HM Smith JH Stewart Mrs VM Trueman Dr SEK van de Ven Dr JR Williamson |
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15 |
Not voted
SJ Agnew
RF Bryant
NN Cathcart
3
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RESOLVED |
that a recorded vote should only occur if six members or one quarter of those present at the meeting, whichever is the fewer, demand it, as per the Constitution. |
For the resolution
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RE Barrett BR Burling Ms PS Corney Dr DR Bard Ms SJO Doggett Mrs A Elsby R Hall Mrs SA Hatton |
Ms CA Hunt HC Hurrell RMA Manning DC McCraith Mrs CAED Murfitt CR Nightingale EJ Pateman Mrs DP Roberts |
NJ Scarr J Shepperson Mrs DSK Spink RT Summerfield Mrs BE Waters NIC Wright
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22 |
Against the resolution
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SJ Agnew JD Batchelor NN Cathcart JP Chatfield Dr SA Harangozo Dr JA Heap |
Mrs EM Heazell SGM Kindersley Dr JPR Orme JA Quinlan Mrs GJ Smith Mrs HM Smith |
JH Stewart Mrs VM Trueman Dr SEK van de Ven Dr JR Williamson
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16 |
Not voted
RF Bryant
1
Minutes:
Councillor JD Batchelor, Information and Customer Services Portfolio Holder, presented this item which sought to clarify the way in which Members wanted the automatic vote recording system to be used. He made the following recommendations:
· Where practical, votes taken at Council, Cabinet, Scrutiny and Overview Committee and Development and Conservation Control Committee should be recorded.
· Members’ names only to be recorded in the minutes when a specific request has been made, as laid out in the constitution.
· The voting record should be available to the public through electronic means.
· These records to be retained for 6 years.
· Votes taken over confidential items would not be recorded.
It was understood that the electronic vote recording system could only operate in the Council Chamber, so it would not be practical to record votes taken at meetings in other rooms.
Councillor NJ Scarr stated that vote recording should be restricted to important matters so he saw no reason to change the current rules that a recorded vote should only occur if six members demand it. He stated that the electronic vote recording system existed to facilitate the recording of votes but its existence did not warrant a change in the rules.
Councillor Scarr expressed particular concern over the recording of votes at Development and Conservation Control Committee Meetings, as a voting record could be misleading without hearing the debate and being aware of planning law. He added that Members would be liable to intimidation from violent pressure groups regarding controversial planning applications if the voting record of members became a public record. Councillor JA Quinlan spoke in favour of Councillor Batchelor’s recommendations which would bring more transparency to the decision making process. He stated that the low possibility of Councillors being intimidated regarding a controversial decision was an insufficient reason to decide against the recording of votes. Councillor Mrs GJ Smith asserted that Members had a duty not to be intimidated by terrorist organisations.
Councillor Dr DR Bard agreed with Councillor Scarr and stated that the public could be misled if shown a voting record without a record of the debate or any other background information. Councillor Mrs DP Roberts stated that members of the public could attend Council meetings, where they could observe the debate and the way members voted. She expressed concern that Members’ individual voting records could be used selectively by political opponents during election time.
Councillor Mrs DSK Spink expressed her opposition to recording all votes at Cabinet as this would erode collective responsibility and was far less flexible than the existing system. Councillor Mrs EM Heazell stated that collective responsibility occurred after the vote and so Cabinet votes should be recorded as well as other public meetings held in the Council Chamber.
Councillor SGM Kindersley stated that in January the Constitution Working Party had recommended that Members’ votes at public meetings should be recorded. He stated that a system should be in place to allow our residents to check the voting record of their local members if they so wished. Councillor JP Chatfield agreed and stated that like in the House of Commons, the way a Member votes should be in the public domain. Councillor RMA Manning stated that to understand the vote, people would need to understand the debate and the House of Commons achieved this through Hansard, which recorded the entire debate as well as the vote. He doubted that any Member advocated a verbatim record of the Council’s public meetings.
It was clarified that voting records would be erased if not required for the minutes.
Councillor Mrs EM Heazell was supported in a request for a recorded vote.
On an amendment proposed by Councillor Scarr and seconded by Councillor Bard Council
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RESOLVED |
that a recorded vote should only occur if six members or one quarter of those present at the meeting, whichever is the fewer, demand it, as per the Constitution. |
For the amendment
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RE Barrett BR Burling Ms PS Corney Dr DR Bard Ms SJO Doggett R Hall Mrs SA Hatton |
Ms CA Hunt HC Hurrell RMA Manning DC McCraith Mrs CAED Murfitt CR Nightingale EJ Pateman |
Mrs DP Roberts NJ Scarr J Shepperson Mrs DSK Spink RT Summerfield Mrs BE Waters NIC Wright |
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21 |
Against the amendment
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JD Batchelor JP Chatfield Mrs A Elsby Dr SA Harangozo Dr JA Heap |
Mrs EM Heazell SGM Kindersley Dr JPR Orme JA Quinlan Mrs GJ Smith |
Mrs HM Smith JH Stewart Mrs VM Trueman Dr SEK van de Ven Dr JR Williamson |
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15 |
Not voted
SJ Agnew
RF Bryant
NN Cathcart
3
Council then voted on the amended proposal as the substantive motion and
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RESOLVED |
that a recorded vote should only occur if six members or one quarter of those present at the meeting, whichever is the fewer, demand it, as per the Constitution. |
For the resolution
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RE Barrett BR Burling Ms PS Corney Dr DR Bard Ms SJO Doggett Mrs A Elsby R Hall Mrs SA Hatton |
Ms CA Hunt HC Hurrell RMA Manning DC McCraith Mrs CAED Murfitt CR Nightingale EJ Pateman Mrs DP Roberts |
NJ Scarr J Shepperson Mrs DSK Spink RT Summerfield Mrs BE Waters NIC Wright
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22 |
Against the resolution
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SJ Agnew JD Batchelor NN Cathcart JP Chatfield Dr SA Harangozo Dr JA Heap |
Mrs EM Heazell SGM Kindersley Dr JPR Orme JA Quinlan Mrs GJ Smith Mrs HM Smith |
JH Stewart Mrs VM Trueman Dr SEK van de Ven Dr JR Williamson
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16 |
Not voted
RF Bryant
1